In this next installment in the Indigenous Wisdom Conversations series, Julia speaks with Amy Owens, an MFT and Creative Spirit Coaching Therapist, Art Therapist, Modern Mystic and Psychedelic Assisted Therapist about her journey with the School Without Walls. Amy speaks about how she learned to listen to her quiet inner voice, and what she's gained from her work with Julia and The School Without Walls. Connect with Amy on Instagram at amyowensmft or via email at amyowensmft@yahoo.com.
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Production assistance from Podlad.com and Daypack Digital. Artwork by Olivia Dancel. Dragonfly art by Soul Creative Design.
Please note that due to AI transcription, there may be minor spelling or grammatical errors in this transcript.
Julia Carmen (00:04):
Well, hello, this is Julia Carmen from The School Without Walls, and we have a really cool, fun, insightful guest today, and her name is Amy, Amy Owens. And I want to just get right in there and just start talking story. Amy, what do you think? Come on in.
Amy Owens (00:25):
Sure.
Julia Carmen (00:26):
Okay. Yeah, the thought came to me when I was thinking about our podcast today, and I was thinking, how did we meet? Do you remember? I think I do, but I'm not sure if that's the first one. Oh, yeah. Oh, do you? Okay, cool. Oh yeah. Well,
Amy Owens (00:48):
Tell us how did you, yeah, I did that then.
Julia Carmen (00:50):
Oh, you did? Okay, cool.
Amy Owens (00:52):
Remember you had your office in that, the Rockaway Beach Plaza area there, and I went to a massage therapist in that area and we were doing massage, and she said that she had a phobia, I think it was a water phobia, and she, that she just worked with this person, Julia Carmen, and she doesn't have the water phobia anymore. And I was like, oh my gosh, I got to meet this person. And so I made an appointment and had an individual session with you there in your office there.
Julia Carmen (01:34):
Oh, you know what I mean? We can't mention her name, but I think I know who you're talking about. I mean, we can't mention her name. We don't have permission to mention her name. But yeah, that was way back when I was doing a little bit of a different type of work and working with phobias, actually, and I had a lot of success. I probably maybe should have hung out there for a minute more. The teacher that taught, he brought me some memories back. Amy, the teacher that taught me that said, oh, that should take about three or four sessions. And I go, oh, I thought I was doing something wrong, right? I go, oh, it only took one and a half sessions. And he goes, whatcha you doing? And then he was one of my mentors, Michael, and he goes, Julie, I think you're going into a space that he knew who I'd be. And he goes, I think you're going into a space that you're kind of cheating. He was teasing me. He goes, you're cheating. And I said, what do you mean? He goes, asked, because you see more. And he goes, let's talk about that. Let's open that up some more. Yeah. And I don't know if I made any sense, but yeah, phobias, I would go, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, boom. Gone. Yeah.
Amy Owens (02:47):
Wow.
Julia Carmen (02:48):
Yeah. Interesting. Right? Yeah. What inspired you, and this is not like the Julia show, but it is about sua, but I really want to know where you were coming from because you hung out with us for a bit, and before the show we talked a little bit, and you folks, everybody, I was always amazed by Amy. Amy would catch me how you would see something and you would go, okay, and then you'd work it, and then you'd move. It could be the same thing, but you would always go deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper. And I'd go, shit. She knows what she's doing. And it was all about you. As you know, I'm not teaching you about me inviting you to see more of you and your wonderfulness. Right. You grabbed every opportunity to see the more of you and totally amazed by you. Yeah. So what was it about, okay, the school thought walls, you should share a little bit more about yourself and where you come from. I kind of jumped into the dah, dah, but people don't know who you be. I know who you be, but others don't.
Amy Owens (04:09):
Well, yeah. We both lived in Pacifica now I moved, I'm down in LA and I'm a marriage and family therapist and also a modern mystic, which you helped me identify that about myself. So that's another story too. But I think in seven years I was in Swell for seven years, and so I did it all. I did Kauai retreat, the big island retreat. I did two times at the Dancing Spirit Ranch, and I did the Cero retreat.
(05:00)
So that was, I definitely participated, and I think this is kind of the, is why do we stay so long with Julia? Because actually I'm kind of an ADD person. I kind of jump around a lot. And for me to stay with somebody for seven years that says a lot. And I was thinking about it and I was, it's like, okay, I was trained as a therapist, so I know what happens in a session with people. And in therapy, if you come in and you start talking about your husband, your son, your mother, your, they're going to bring it back to you. They're always going to bring it back to you, and it's really just your issue. But with Julia, she gets to know your family members,
Julia Carmen (05:59):
And
Amy Owens (06:00):
She becomes part of the family.
Julia Carmen (06:02):
That's true.
Amy Owens (06:03):
And she doesn't shy away from anything. I mean, I had a lot of problems with my son. He has terrible anxiety and developed addictions and all that kind of thing. So I really needed some help, and I needed help with him, not just with myself. I kind of had already been in a lot of therapy myself, but you just weren't afraid to go there. And my mother, she had already passed, and I had a terrible relationship with my mother growing up, and we resolved it to some degree, but there was still kind of resentment there, just because I was number four out of six kids. So she got a lot of other people to take care of me, but she didn't really,
(06:52)
Her mothering, she lost energy for mothering or something at that point. So Julia could contact her from the other side and said that she wanted to make an apology for that and really acknowledged that she wasn't there for me. And that was huge. It just let that whole thing go. And now I have a great relationship with my mother on the other side, and I call on her a lot. So that's what you'll learn with Julia, is about your peeps. And your peeps are the unseen allies that are out. There could be family members, but could be lots of other things too. And she'll get you to become familiar with that in a way that all of a sudden you have this support that you can rely on. And it shows up in lots of different ways. I think that's one of the reasons why I stayed so long was, yeah,
Julia Carmen (08:08):
It's really different, I think when we're working. And so I'm in another state of being right now during this podcast. It's like a talk story, very casual, and you're our second person to do the book, a third person to do the record these podcasts, and listening to where you be and how your experience, it's so refreshing to hear, because as a human, I'm a human, and we all have insecurities and things like that. And there are times that my insecurity is, am I doing enough? That's where my insecurities come from. So listening to that, I just want to thank you because listening to that is, that's the goal. I don't want to create another Julia. I don't even understand the Julia that I am, so I would definitely not want to do that. Yeah. And it's interesting, Amy, and I think you understand this, that your mom has become a friend of mine, and I don't think I share that with you folks, but it's like they don't ever kind of leave me.
(09:24)
So it's like I gather these persons on the nonphysical realm. Well, to me, I say nonphysical because that's the vernacular of the over culture and what they use. But for me, they're just the same as humans. They just don't have a solid form, but they look like you. Your mom hangs out and other folks that we've talked story with. And so I receive a lot from working with you folks. It does become one unity, not one unity sua, but one unity of it reminds us that we're all one, that we're not separate. We happen to come to the school without walls. And that's a part of the big picture. So the answers aren't in any one organization or any one person, but it's nice to find a place where you could talk story freely about things that another community might go, oh, whatcha talking about? Or something. I dunno. Yeah. Does that make sense, Amy?
Amy Owens (10:34):
Oh, yeah, completely. And I think a lot of times I would say, oh, this really weird thing happened to me. And you would be like, Hey, remember you're a modern mystic. That's not weird. That's just everyday reality.
Julia Carmen (10:57):
That's true. Yeah. And you could say no, but do you still have your cape? And if you don't want to talk about your cape, that's fine also.
Amy Owens (11:06):
Oh, yeah, I still have my cape.
Julia Carmen (11:07):
Okay. Can you share with the folks what the cape's all about? I love it. I love it. Love it, love it, love it.
Amy Owens (11:16):
Yeah. Well, I was writing a book, actually, I had just finishing it and just on the verge of publishing it when I met you.
Julia Carmen (11:34):
I didn't know that, or I forgot it.
Amy Owens (11:37):
Yeah, it was 2014, I think, when we started, and that's exactly when. And so when the book was wrapping up, then it was nice to have your support because you really helped me do the book signings and
Julia Carmen (11:51):
Things like that. Oh, that book. Oh, that book. Oh, the book that you, it's actually out Out. Oh my gosh, that was great. Yeah, go ahead.
Amy Owens (12:01):
And the book, it's about addiction and recovery, but it's a different approach. So it's a spiritual approach, but they say AA is a spiritual approach, but then they use God and it gets confusing the way AA uses spirituality, I think. So this kind of goes beyond that. It's a step beyond that, and it's more like just opening yourself up to what is out there in terms of the support of the universe, basically. And so I would go on these walks and I would form relationships with birds and animals and the trails. And so it was that kind of a story. And so when I did the book signings, I made this cape and it had this gold panels on it that had all the symbols and all my unseen friends from the story. So there was an owl and a dog, and just lots of characters that were in the story were on the cape. And people loved that cape. I mean, they loved the Cape better than the book.
Julia Carmen (13:35):
That's funny. But it
Amy Owens (13:36):
Was fun. Just show up in character as this person that kind of like a magician or whatever, kind of a person that is, but not in, this is a trick way, but in a way of the magic. There's just bringing the magic into everyday life.
Julia Carmen (14:00):
Yeah. What's the name of the book?
Amy Owens (14:02):
It's called Chasing Serenity. Ooh,
Julia Carmen (14:05):
That's right. Is it still out in
Amy Owens (14:08):
Yeah, it's on Amazon.
Julia Carmen (14:10):
Is it really? Okay, so you folks listen to Chasing Serenity. Why not Now? You reminded me. I don't know how that slipped my mind, but I remember the book. It's a great book. I read it. Yeah,
Amy Owens (14:29):
Of course. I was married then to Sullivan, so it's by AO Sullivan. So now,
Julia Carmen (14:41):
Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. That sounds beautiful. I want to share something. Also, to me, you're talking about a book, and I don't know if you remember this. The other thing that I really, the journey that we had together was you always, almost always, I mean, you're a great listener. That's the part I think, why you were able to see something and go, okay, that's what I need to do. Because a lot of times when we're in a state of confusion or a state of whatever, we have a difficult time hearing ourselves. And so when I'm in, we were at a Mac class, the Master Alma class over at one of the other gal's house over here, up in Pacific, up on the hill. And we were just talking, this was a few years ago. We were just talking story I was in, and then I said, in all reality, and I don't remember saying it, but you wrote it down, and all reality we're all just all one indigenous soul.
(15:50)
And then I kept talking, and then you said, wait a minute. I dunno if you remember this. You said, wait a minute, Julia, that's the name of your book, indigenous Soul. And I pooed it a little bit. And I said, oh, okay. And then I went, oh. Oh my goodness. So because you're such a great listener, that would've gone right through me, because when I'm in, and I really do, I mean, I'll slip in there every now and then, but more often than not, it really is all about you. I mean, I'm in there to be with you folks. I'm not in there to be with Julia. Now, catch me in between. I might do Busy Mind Julia, but majority of the times, it's like, yeah. So I probably would've missed that, Amy.
Amy Owens (16:35):
Well, I became a very good listener because I learned that when Julia or Julia or whoever is talking during those Mac classes, that information is just for me. It's not in general for the group, it's specifically for me. And I remember bringing in, because I would bringing my problems or whatever, and I just had this weird feeling like I was carrying around shame. And even in the grocery store, I would walk into the grocery store and I'd feel shame. And I asked you, I said, what is this? This is so weird. Why am I just feeling shame everywhere I go? And so you said, okay, well get on ancestry.com and go back five and seven generations, and so you can get on Ancestry for free for two weeks. So I got on for free for two weeks and on your father's side. So I checked, went back, and there are good records for my father's side. So went back five generations, and turns out one of the women had a child when she was 11 years old.
Julia Carmen (17:49):
And
Amy Owens (17:50):
Then that was just kind of recorded. And then she went on to have a family. She had five kids after that. But when she was 18, then she had a family. She got married and had a family. So this was a child out of wedlock. And then, but you said seven generations too. So I went back seven generations to those ancestors. And that night I had a dream, and it was very clear that she got pregnant, impregnated by her grandfather.
Julia Carmen (18:24):
Yeah, I remember that now.
Amy Owens (18:28):
And so that just kind of blew me away. And after that, it was like, if Julia says it, it's real. You want to follow up on that. There's another example of when I have a little addiction to chocolate,
Julia Carmen (18:47):
I remember that one.
Amy Owens (18:49):
So I'm not eating chocolate now, but if I get back on the habit, it's like I have to have it every day and whatever. So I brought it up during the class and you said, okay, there's this book, it's called The Book of Aha. Oh, yeah, yeah. And so I got the book, and it's all about, it really kind of busts your chops about your belief systems. So you have these belief systems, but they're not real. And she makes it perfectly clear that your belief systems are just not true.
Julia Carmen (19:29):
And
Amy Owens (19:29):
So my belief system was, oh, I've had a hard day and I deserve to have a treat, and so that's why I get my chocolate at the end of the day or whatever. And it just worked. It was like, oh my gosh, I'm
Julia Carmen (19:46):
Telling
Amy Owens (19:46):
Myself this, but it's not true. And just things like that. But you didn't give that reading assignment to anybody else in the class?
Julia Carmen (19:54):
No. Thank you for clarifying that, because it doesn't work that way, at least not for me. Yeah. Way back when, mha long time ago, I'd find a book and I'd say, oh, everybody, I got this book. And I'd say a third of the group would say, oh, great. The other one would, the other two thirds would go. And then I asked my pee, my nonphysical pee. I said, what's up with that? And they said, you're generalizing. Who are you? I got my lessons too from them. And I go, what do you mean? I said, no, that's not how this works. Each person is a frequency in vibration. So Jenny Lake's book, aha, I don't know if it's still out. She's since passed. She's gone. She had a heart condition, but I know she passed a few years ago. But amazing woman. And I just knew that she was going to be able to talk story with you. Yeah.
Amy Owens (20:58):
So that's why I became a very good listener. And Julia knows I would take notes.
Julia Carmen (21:06):
Oh God, yes. Notes.
Amy Owens (21:07):
Notes. I mean, she records it, so you can get the recording. But for me, there was just something about the notes that I needed, and then I would have them and go back over them.
Julia Carmen (21:19):
Exactly. Right. Yeah. I'm like, oh my goodness.
Amy Owens (21:24):
I wrote down some of the things that we quote learned, because I think that's kind of interesting. And Julia kind of, at first, she was more doing it for us. Oh, yes,
Julia Carmen (21:45):
That's true.
Amy Owens (21:46):
And so that was really great. I loved those years, but Julia was doing it for us.
Julia Carmen (21:52):
Explain what that means, because I have really gone away from that, but explain. Yeah.
Amy Owens (21:59):
So then she realized that it's probably more important for us to develop our own sense intuition and that inner knowing. I just have a funny example where it's really that small quiet voice in there that we'll talk to you. And one of the problems I think with a lot of us is that we end up dismissing the voice.
(22:33)
So I remember one time, it just became perfectly clear to me, I was in a medical office and there was two different bathrooms. And so the voice said, go to the second bathroom. And I was like, yeah, but the first bathroom's right here. I'm just going to take the first bathroom. So I went in the first bathroom and it was a mess. I mean, really a mess. So I went, oh, okay. I think I'll take the second bathroom. And it's really a small example, but it really got my attention because it's like, yeah, you can keep on dismissing that voice, but you've got that ability. You've got it right there. I mean, I've got it. So now I kind of check myself and I'll hear the voice, and then it's like, okay, you have a choice. You can follow the voice, or you can not follow the voice. And it's funny because when I don't, it usually is like, Hmm, I shoulda followed. That's that inner knowing.
Julia Carmen (23:47):
I love that you said that because somebody listening to you will go, well, why wouldn't you listen to that voice? I came in seeing nonphysical, people didn't even know that was anything abnormal or whatever for the normal people. And still to this day, I turned 70 this year. To this day, I'll go the same thing. And then I have a dog now, and my dog, Nava, he will like, mom, listen. And I'm going, what am I listening to? I'm busy right now. I'm doing something, I don't know, making the bed or No, I don't make my bed. But anyways, I'm doing something, and then all of a sudden I'm going, oh, I don't feel so good. My body's having a response to something. And I'll sit down, and then he'll look at me and I'll go, oh my gosh, I forgot about blah, blah, blah, or whatever. And then I'll go, how did I do that? Then I scold myself, which is not a good thing, and my peeps are going, why are you doing that? So all these conversations are going on. So just because we know does it mean. Yeah. And that is what I call practice, right?
Amy Owens (25:03):
Yeah.
Julia Carmen (25:04):
How you learn to listen to that small voice that says, go into the second bathroom. And then you go into the first one and you go, oh, that's why. Boom.
Amy Owens (25:18):
Yeah. And basically it's learning to trust that.
Julia Carmen (25:22):
Amen.
Amy Owens (25:24):
And so I think trust is just such a very, very basic thing that it's really the foundation, except that we've, I think walking in both worlds while walking in this human world, we are very suspicious of everything, I think. Exactly. Oh God, we have to second guess everything, and we have to make sure we're not getting scammed or cheated or whatever. Protection. That protection. So it's an unlearning too, I think unlearning learning how to just have the mentality of the over culture. That's the other thing that you really explained so well, that now I can really easily distinguish what is the over culture? What is that conditioning that I'm dealing with, and what is the true voice and the soul perspective? So that's what Julia gives you is the soul perspective that is just so beautiful.
Julia Carmen (26:38):
It's an invitation, right? Miha an invitation to see you and to see your Alma, and to see your spirit. It's a true invitation, want to, and it's not as you know, and anybody that's been at SUA or still in SUA or whatever, it's not for the faint at heart. I make it fun and easy and so on. But I definitely know, I think I might've mentioned it. I've mentioned it every now and then, because people do ask me, do you work the shadow side? And I go, I don't go get it. I don't go look for it, but if it shows up, I know what to do. But I don't say, okay, you know what? We're all going to get together and we're going to work on the shadow side. Now it shows up, and I'm super equipped to deal with it, but I do not invite it in. That's a whole nother genre and ballgame. I've had friends, a real good friend, she, that's all she ever did was work the shadow side. And I said, we're powerful, you chica, but that's not anything I'm interested in doing. And she was great at it. And I say, she was great. She's not here in the human rum anymore. It takes a toll on the body. It takes a toll on the human psyche. When you're doing that 24 7, literally, that's kind of what you sign up for. So when you share mha, that which you have shared, I really appreciate that because it helps me hear what SUA is all about. I do forget. I'm just doing my thing.
Amy Owens (28:18):
Yeah, that so perspective, again, it's kind of like, I don't know. It's kind of a small voice. So a lot of times we'll dismiss that. I mean, we all know what it is.
Julia Carmen (28:38):
Oh,
Amy Owens (28:38):
But she have to hang around with Julia A. Little bit to really be able to distinguish, okay, what is that voice? What is that talking in my head? Where's that coming from? What's that voice? What's this voice? It does take a school, the school without walls, to really get a handle on being able to make that distinction.
Julia Carmen (29:06):
The brain will take us into interesting places because check this out, folks. Check this out, this Amy the brain. That's what you're talking about. The belief systems that Jenny was talking about. The brain will only solve what you put into it, just like Einstein. You can't fix the same problem with the way you created it. So if the brain created something, you can't go there to uncreate it because the information's not there. Michael used to tell me, Julia, if you can't find the solution in your brain within seven minutes, I don't know how you came up with seven minutes. It's not there. And I used to go, okay, but how many of us spend more than seven minutes trying to figure something out? I don't. So that magical thinking is okay. That's what I love. I love superhero stuff. I go watch all that Superman and Spiderman, I enjoy it. I know it's fantasy. It's a different frequency, but the non-physical realm of being is a different feeling, right, Amy? It is.
Amy Owens (30:26):
Yeah.
Julia Carmen (30:26):
Right. Yeah. I don't want to talk for you, but I know my feelings and emotions when it's not a feeling emotion. It's like it because we're born with grace. We're born our innate, our Alma wisdom. Our soul has joy, happiness, grace has it all. We think we have to go get it out there. But as you shared earlier, we come in as little people, and then we believe things that are not real. I mean, maybe it happened to us as a child, but it gets stuck in the system of the body. Yeah.
Amy Owens (31:08):
Yeah. Well, I have a good story about the grace.
Julia Carmen (31:11):
Oh, thank you.
Amy Owens (31:13):
Well, I wanted to describe too, what it's like on the retreats. If you go on a retreat, well, really in the class too, but that expression of like, well, okay, turn your clocks back to 1925 or whatever. That's what you feel like all of a sudden. And this is the finer frequency that you were talking about before. It's just the vibrational level of the room just kind of goes way. I mean, I'm saying down, but I don't know if it's up or down, but it just, everything slows down.
(31:58)
And so you're just kind of in this soup, and you're just kind of eyes and ears, but you kind lose track of your email you're with, you just lose all of that busy mind. Stuff just kind of melts away, and you're just kind of in this space. And so this was in Kauai, and I had brought the art supplies, and so I was making some art, and so I was just busy making the arts. Some people were making arts and doing other things, but whatever. And all of a sudden I felt like singing Amazing Grace. So I started singing Amazing Grace, just humming amazing Grace while I'm making my art, whatever. And somebody walked past and they said, oh, you got the text? And I said, no, what text are you talking about? And there was a text going around that somebody had taken a picture, beautiful picture of something, and Julia had put in there Amazing Grace. That's a picture of amazing grace. And here I am humming Amazing Grace.
Julia Carmen (33:16):
I forgot about that. Right? I remember that. It was sweet. I mean, not Sacro seeds, like the chocolate Sweet. Yeah. Oh, wow. Wow. Amy. Yeah. Right.
Amy Owens (33:37):
Yeah. And then the other thing about the mat classes or
Julia Carmen (33:45):
The
Amy Owens (33:45):
Retreats is that, well, I'm a little bit verbose, and I always ended up being on the call first. So I would just catch Julia's ear and I would just be like, you wouldn't believe it. This happened. That happened, this happened that. And so I would just do that. But then Julia had a way of just taking the golden nugget out of all the stuff. I was like, blah, here, Julia, this. I would just give her everything. And then she would take the bill Golden Nugget out of it, and she would go, oh, here, Amy, here. This is the golden nugget. I would be like, whoa. And then other people would come into the class and they would be like, they'd give you nothing practically. I remember one of our people, students, she said, oh, well, last month I got my hair cut. And we're all like, okay, great. Lovely. You got your hair. And then Julia, it's hard to talk about you, but you ended up reframing the haircut into letting go of this heaviness in your life or whatever, which totally was what resonated with the person that it was more than a haircut. It wasn't just a haircut.
Julia Carmen (35:10):
Yeah. Yeah. I forget a lot because I can't hold everything in my human brain. My human brain will go, right. And each time you share something, I remember the players and who's there and so on. You went to Casaro because each year we're still doing it, Amy. We do timeline work and Oh, yeah, Casaro only been there once, and then we go to Napa or we go somewhere else now. Because timeline work is very personal. It's, I think that's probably one of the most working one that I do, because we go, it's all really, truly all about you and your peeps show up, but it's about you deciding how many years you want to look at into the future, and you have these groups of persons helping you holding that space and guiding you through these years. And what I've noticed, I don't know, I'm putting you on the spot, but what I've noticed, everyone, when they look at their timeline, whether they've written it down or not, they'll go, oh my gosh, this is the year of this blah, blah. Because you know what, Amy? It's so true. When you said seven years, most people, like I was talking to, and G's fine with me, G and I were talking about this at the other podcast, is that there's no 10 steps to being a human. I mean, maybe there's 10 steps to banking or something, but not this. Yeah, yeah. So it's so individual that I'm like, Ooh,
Amy Owens (36:56):
As a clarification, that retreat with the timeline is at the first of the year.
Julia Carmen (37:05):
Yes.
Amy Owens (37:06):
So that's why we're looking ahead, basically. And you can look ahead as many years as you, and you have this incredible way of doing it with the long pieces of paper.
Julia Carmen (37:20):
We're still doing it that way. Yeah.
Amy Owens (37:22):
And again, it's for only, it's not for the group that we're all going to go through the same thing. No, you feel so honored to be there with people. I mean, it's so intimate
Julia Carmen (37:43):
To
Amy Owens (37:43):
Be with people while they're, they're birthing their new self and stuff, and you have a way of bringing in the body. It's like a psychodrama each one. You
Julia Carmen (38:02):
Know what? I like that. Yeah, you're right. Characters
Amy Owens (38:05):
Come in and there's different ways that it unfolds and And then we have markers and stuff like that. So take the green marker and draw a tree. It's just so beautiful to see it unfold with, I mean, just blows me away.
Julia Carmen (38:28):
Oh, well, Amy, I went to one of your art classes, and I've shared this with you. The way Amy teaches art is not, I've taken art classes before in other persons, but I'm not an artist. And Amy's probably going, yes, you are. Everybody's an artist. But I remember drawing, just being with the movement of the art has helped me become more fully present with myself. Because art is what you were talking about, Kauai, everybody's like doing their art and so on. And then you heard Grace, amazing Grace, and you started singing it. So bringing all those things in any environment. So I just want to thank you for being my art teacher, because I'm still using that. I think the two sisters, the book that I put together, I did the artwork and you were so kind to share. Remember, you did that artwork and the two sisters or whatever you said.
(39:46)
So I get it now and I'm going, I'm glad you do because I'm still trying to figure it out. But it was because you said, just go with it. And I always felt like I did. But yeah. And on another, I don't know if you know this, but my niece, who was my daughter, Alicia, she says, you could say my name. I said, okay, I don't know if your mom's going to be okay with that. But she died during Covid, but not because of Covid. And so I needed to draw something on the day she was being released, and I just got this canvas, and I could hear your voice. I'm not kidding, saying, just go with it, Julia. Just feel it and go with it. And it helped me. And when I was done, I went, oh, and my sister got a small, it was a big canvas. I gave the big canvas to my sister who lost her daughter, and then my other sister got a bunch of little ones mates for everybody to have. I was so like, oh, wow. I mean, everybody goes, you did that. And I go, but I want to give shouts out to the inspiration. And that was your teaching, how to be.
Amy Owens (41:06):
Yeah. Well, I mean, it's a similar approach because basically it's just kind of mark making. If you just kind of boil it down to making marks, making choices, you have different colors and making marks. And so the main thing is just getting out of your own way and getting that inner critic out of your way. Because that's what'll happen is that part of us will come in and go, oh, it looks like you made that in kindergarten or whatever. And that's just that voice is going to be there. But that's fear that is on kind a top layer of what's really our expression of our soul self. Exactly. I used to kind of together and say spirit, soul, self, because it just kind of, I don't know. For some reason, it just, again, letting that part of us come forward. And then of course, you have to ask other parts to step aside because they're not important right now. What's important right now is really getting from your heart, basically, or
Julia Carmen (42:32):
Your divine heart. Yeah.
Amy Owens (42:34):
Yeah.
Julia Carmen (42:34):
Well, the reason I shared that, Amy, because this was an important person in my life. My daughter and her were only, they were like sisters. She was my girl. And so to get quiet enough to draw something was very difficult. And so, like I said, I just want to share with you again, I heard your voice. Just be with it. Just because the more skin you have in the game for anything, the more busy might it we get, the more distracted we get, the more we judge ourselves, the more the belief systems come up. I can't do this or whatever. And then we don't think we have a choice, but you understand this is what's going on with me, not you, but that's what we say. I go and then my peeps go, if you need to do blah, blah in order to move through the shore, but you don't have to stay there, don't camp out there, Chica.
(43:32)
That's how they don't camp out there. Don't build a cabin in the castle and a whole town around this experience. If you need external help, go get it. If you need to take an art class, go get it. And that's how we know, right, Amy, where to go. There's that voice within us that's still small voice that says, Hey. Yeah. So again, I want to thank you because I don't know if I could have done that art, because I knew it was going to be on display. Display at some point. I knew that my sister was going to receive that. Right.
Amy Owens (44:10):
And then it's, you're kind of naked kind of exposing exhibit. It's like exhibiting your innermost.
Julia Carmen (44:22):
Yeah, yeah. But my niece was there guiding me, telling me what colors and stuff. She was a total comedian, and still, she's like, oh, auntie, you're so emotional. I said, oh, shut up. What was my, cause I was able to tap into her fully and then just talk story with her. And so I laughed and cried. I think I took me a couple hours to do it, but I laughed and cried and giggled and the whole thing, and you were part of it. And it was like, okay, here we go. This is what I'm talking about. There's things that I experienced that I don't tell you folks because I'm going, oh, yeah. But on some level, that's the cool part of it. But we always know there's like, oh, I just thought of Amy. I wonder what's going on with her. Still now there isn't.
(45:12)
I always tell everybody, once you've been at S wow, you've always been at S Wow. Yeah. I don't dunno if it's okay to say this, but we have a group text, and I remember when we talked, you kind, well, now what happens? I go, whatever. She'd go, well, is this Tianna said, oh, hell no. You're always welcome to come and join us or whatever. But we have a group text. You're still on the group text. You need something, let us know. And what's so cool about all of you ladies, nobody abuses it. Nobody. Everybody's just there for love. And we don't text each other at two o'clock in the morning or anything like that, or it's not excessive when somebody needs something. I mean, it goes from traveling like, oh, I'm traveling today and I'm a little nervous to, I need to sell my house. You're not the only one that's happened to others. I need to sell my house and can I get some support on this? And we go, oh, we're on it. The universe got you. We got you. Swell had you, so it's cool. So you're part of us forever. I don't know if that makes sense, but Well, you know that, right? Yeah. I mean, I hope you know that. Yeah.
Amy Owens (46:25):
Well, I know I wasn't used to that kind of treatment because usually you leave the tribe and then it's like, okay, well go ahead. Leave the tribe then. But it wasn't like that at all. It was still, yeah. And that group text so nice to get that support. Yeah.
Julia Carmen (46:45):
Yeah. I always tell everybody, I may not text back, but I'm watching it on there also. And if somebody's really struggling with something, I may just kind of get quiet and think about it and go, here you go, MHA on that nonphysical realm. And then I let it go. I mean, I let God creator, whatever your thought is on that, take care of it. Because that's who's really taking care of it. It's when we hold onto it, which is kind of a challenge for a lot of us. Like I said, the more skin of the game, the more we want to hold on to shit. Which again, I'm going to tell you, Amy, I love how you process. I really do. So it's about doing the work that you want to do. And it's so individual that I feel there isn't a day that I don't get up and feel so blessed that this is my work being human.
(47:39)
The last, I don't know how many years people have been saying the sky is falling and the sky is falling, right? It is. It's been doing that for a long time. How do we maneuver through all of that, Amy? So getting quiet and still and remembering that what we have within us is fully developed. There isn't anything out there that's going to and how to maneuver through all of this stuff, because with social media, it is a challenge. Sometimes if you're on it too much, you kind of go, oh, am I doing this? Am I doing that? I mean the brain, it's condition and algorithms and stuff like that. You can start telling yourself, you're not on the right track. The brain can. So recognizing that you have everything with inside of you and having the confirmation and trusting that and the unconditional love of self. Yeah, it's a day-to-day thing, don't you think, Amy?
Amy Owens (48:36):
Yeah, of course it is. And that unconditional love of self, that's a Julia for sure. And you might not understand it right now, but if you get steeped in it enough, you really start to get that vibration of that and just how important that is. I mean, most of us are walking around without that. And I'm in LA now, so I really see it.
Julia Carmen (49:17):
I heard about, I dunno, Northern California, Pacifica, but that's the whole thing is to have, my understanding is unconditional love of self. And I mean, it's not perfect. I'm not perfect. I judge myself and all that stuff. But when I've shared that with folks, they'll go, oh, you mean I have to love that person out there? I said, no, I have to love that person unconditionally. I said, no, don't worry about the other people. Just kind of hang out with yourself, and in that unconditional love, in that moment, you'll know what to do because you'll get quiet and then you'll know if you need to say something to that person or not, or that situation or whatever. Yeah.
Amy Owens (50:04):
Here's a really good story along those lines. And then Julia's all about being, here's my, oh, you.
Julia Carmen (50:18):
Oh my gosh. You go, girl.
Amy Owens (50:21):
Yeah, we were at a retreat. You get the little swag bag when you go to the retreats. And so Julia and whoever picks out these little things, well, I got this bee, it's a little stuffed animal bee. And then I was sitting at the table outdoors and this be flew around and landed on my shoulder and my friend was, and I wasn't scared at all because you're already in that being place. And my friend is like, oh yeah, lemme take a picture. Lemme take a picture. So by the time she pulls out her camera, the bee has walked across my chest, across my heart shock. I don't think there was any accident. And then it kind of got on the other side, but we kind of lost it. She couldn't find the bee. Well, it ended up in my pocket and it stayed in my pocket the whole weekend.
(51:26)
So I mean, talk about literally being or whatever. But then my son, I told you, he has anxiety. And so he had one of those Fitbits or whatever that measures your heart rate and all that kind of stuff. And so when I'm with him, of course I'm therapist. I'm always trying to fix him. Well, did you try this? And lemme try this and let's do this. But this time I'm like, I'm not going to that. I'm just going to get into that space of being and just be there. So breathing, relaxing, just letting go and just settling in and just feeling and being. So there I am. He looks at his fit bit and usually his heart rate is very high. It's over a hundred most of the time, and not exercising. It just has really high heart rate. And so he looks at his Fitbit and it's down to 70 or whatever, and he's like, oh, it must be broken. My Fitbit must be broken. Oh. I'm like, no, your Fitbit's not broken. But that's how just developing that presence in yourself affects the other people around you and your loved ones. And so you don't have to focus on that. Oh, here's another, Julia is stay on your side of the street kind of thing. So the more you stay on your side of the street and develop that vibration of being, which she also talks about the vibrations of being, then that will affect everybody in your life.
Julia Carmen (53:18):
It just does. Right? Yeah. That experience you had with your son, that one I remember the B definitely, but I have four sons and a daughter and tons of grandchildren and great-grandchildren. And again, more skin in the game you have, the more challenging it is to be quiet. And Amy, that right there has been a true lesson for me because that's truth. What you're sharing is truth. That's not an anomaly. Like your son's saying, oh, it broke when you shared that story. So I'm like, okay, remember what Amy did? Just be still Julia. In your stillness, there's a greater possibility that everybody around you will be still, when I've gone off the rails and I have, there's chaos. I'm not saying I'm controlling everything. I'm just saying that it doesn't help. It just doesn't help. But being in that state that you're talking about, if even if everybody else is in chaos or whatever, you still have, you still have you, and you're able to see what you need to see or not see or say or whatever. But I've tried both and staying, and Bean definitely works. The other one, no, it's like throwing spaghetti on the wall. It sticks sometimes and sometimes it just slithers down and I'm going to go with Bean because it works 100% of the time. The outcome is you didn't do that to have that outcome. That outcome came and you went, wow. Your peeps knew that definitely that was something that needed to happen. And your son was receptive on some level to be in your frequency and vibration.
(55:23)
That is so cool.
Amy Owens (55:25):
Yeah, I mean, to me, that's kind of like the stuff of miracles almost. And people think, oh yeah, miracles aren't possible or whatever, but they happen every day. I mean, that's kind of cliche, but No, it's true. The more you can develop that, just that ability to be quiet and be
Julia Carmen (55:48):
Yeah, exactly. I agree with
Amy Owens (55:50):
You. Then you watch it unfold. Yeah, that's what I, because I'm a control freak. Okay. I admit it. And so here in la, the traffic, whatever, and I kind of know the traffic patterns, but then it's always something different. So I've decided to not expect anything.
Julia Carmen (56:11):
Just
Amy Owens (56:12):
Let go of my expectations and let it unfold. And that's new for me.
Julia Carmen (56:23):
I love that. And let it unfold.
(56:29)
That is not how most of people here in the us, I'm talking about the United States, that's been my experience here, thinks that's not the thinking of the over culture. To let it unfold. You have to know what the next step is and yeah, so that's priceless. There is no price on that one because it's difficult to let things unfold when you have thinking around it or when you think you should be doing something or whatever. Well, I think we're going to wrap it up here. I don't think that time went by really fast. I'm like, oh, look what the, so I want to thank you Amy Owens for, what is your middle name?
Amy Owens (57:20):
Kelsey. Kelsey, yeah. I changed my middle name when I got the divorce and I took the liberty of changing my middle name. So Kelsey, now it's CE LSE A, because I love the water too, and kind goes back to my Irish roots. And that's the whole other subject, just the indigenous, that whole, you have to wait for Julia's book to find out about that.
Julia Carmen (57:48):
I know the book that's been in process for a bazillion years, but it's coming out in soon. It's happening. Yeah. I've been writing quite a bit. And thank you, Amy, for expanding on some of one of the chapters. Maybe another time we'll talk about that. But thank you for that insight. Yeah, yeah. Thank you Amy, so much. This was, the word that keeps coming is delight. It was so decadent and delight. Those words keep coming up, so I'm just going to say them. I thought, I dunno if I even use decadent my normal day, but very decadent. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah. So thank you so much. Is there anything else you want to just add in there?
Amy Owens (58:35):
Well, it's just always fun to be with you, and I just appreciate you so much and your stories and just your way of just kind of communicating and I guess that's just the richness of it. It just feels richer than just kind of a normal conversation. Always
Julia Carmen (59:06):
Does. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. So okay everyone, we are going to let Amy go off and do her thing in la so we'll talk story soon. Again. Goodbye everyone.
(59:24)
You'll find links to Amy's book and the other resources we talked about today on our website at theschoolwithoutwalls.net. If you like to learn more about our Master Alma Class, the Chi Chi Soul Time program, and our other upcoming retreats, like our return to the Dancing Spirit Ranch in May 2024, you'll also find all that information on our website, theschoolwithoutwalls.net. And while you're there, why not sign up for our newsletter and receive my free gift, your guide to 10 Questions to Ask Your Soul Self? I can't wait to connect with you folks and thanks for listening today. Amen.